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| What would you like to change/ improve with photo contests? |
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MIN0TAUR |
 Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:06 am Post subject: |
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Enthusiast
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 24
Location: california
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I guess I need to correct myself and thank Chris for the idea,denise "just"modified it a little better to my likeing.
Harry |
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| ckurz7000 |
| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Devotee
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 43
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I am happy to see that we have a constructive debate about modifying the scoring system of our contests.
I have another suggestion: why not try out a new scoring system using the photos of an old and already closed contest. It would strictly be a trial run and nobody's feelings would get hurt. Furthermore, we could see if the final result turns out different and if so, how.
Regarding the voting on technique: generally I am in favor of giving feedback on the the technical aspects of a photo. However, there's just no way of judging but the grossest of flaws if I see a heavily compressed jpeg (lots of artifacts and loss of details) in a tiny image. What I might think was a heavy heanded use of the sharpening tool in post processing could just be a compression artifact. Similarly the saturation of highlights and shadows. Was there still details in a shadow? No way of telling. What is the depth of field? No good way of telling accurately because of the image size.
Therefore my preference would be for each voter to give a MANDATORY verbal critique of the photo in which he is free to comment on any gross technical if present and perceptible. I would not, however, rank the photo on its technical merits separately. Having the verbal comment be manadtory also makes the voter stop a bit and reflect upon his judgement. And verbal critiques are much more helpful to the photographer than a simple average score.
To help alleviate this point, it might be a good idea to submit contest photos only in a larger size. I would suggest something that fills the screen of the average computer monitor. Maybe limit the largest dimension to 1024 pixel. I wouldn't limit the file size separately because a jpeg file is already compressed anyway and any more compression will degrade the quality of the photo which we are supposed to judge.
If the board moderators are concerned about download times during voting I suggest that every photo be displayed in a smaller size (as is currently the case) and upon request of the voter he can see the larger size.
Just my 0.02 U$s' worth.
-- Chris.
P.S.: Legal disclaimer: the use of the male form of personal pronouns is not in any way intended to connote discrimination of genders be they grammatical or otherwise, nor can it be construed as the expression of a sexual preference of any way, kind, or form. :D |
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| TrishaW |
| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Devotee
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 40
Location: Oklahoma
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I still like JLW's suggestions for scoring in http://www.shotaddict.com/forum/ftopic1437.php thread.
I personally could care less about winning contest, I'm here trying to learn "what works and what doesn't" in the photos I take. I feel like JLW's suggestions of splitting up and scoring on different aspects of the technical end would help with that. I also think that looking at other photos, and really having to think about the different aspects helps.
I don't have a lot of time to spend on the computer, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Right now, when I have a few minutes, I can look at a few photos that are in the voting stage, vote on how I think they are, and if I really like more than one photo, I can give each one high marks, after all, aren't all the scores given to a photo averaged together for the final score? Then, when I have a few more minutes, I can come back and vote on a few others in the same contest. I try to take time and really look at each photo entered, and score it based on just what I think of that one photo, not compare it to the other ones entered.
I feel like if we're limited to a certain number of points or votes, it is going to take longer spans of time because then I'll have to look at all the photos at once and then decide how I would place them, "first, second, third, etc" which means comparing them with all the others entered, and I don't see how that would help me try to learn anything on my own photos. I can see for myself that there are always countless other ones that are better! If the voting is done the way JLW suggested, I can see my final score and know that "ok, I need to work on lighting" or whatever. |
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| JLW |
| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:12 am Post subject: |
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Addict
Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 144
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Trisha
Thanks for the support about my voting suggestions… I’ll repost it here so no one has to go back to the other thread. But before I do I’d like to comment on a couple of other suggestions I have seen.
I think any scoring system that allows for a single large block or 2 large blocks of votes will end up having the same results as the current scoring system. Those who have learned to scam the system with multiple accounts could continue to vote large blocks of votes for their own photos and skew the results.
I kinda like the idea of people having to participate in the forums in order to vote but I’m not sure how the system could be configured to control that.
I would love to see if the system could be configured to delete all user accounts that have O’s in all their stats, weekly if possible. This could help eliminate some of the multi account voting problems.
I don’t think the photo with the most votes is the best way to judge a contest. I have recently had photos pushed all the way to last place with more votes than the first place photo.
There’s probably more but I should quit hogging up the discussion.
JLW
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Orville Wright didn’t have a pilot's license. |
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| JLW |
| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:15 am Post subject: |
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Addict
Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 144
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Here's the repost, slightly revised, of the voting suggestions Trisha mentioned above.
First ... Bring back the visible comments feature so there can be some immediate feedback for the photographer’s posting. At least that way everyone viewing them may get a few ideas about what is good or not so good about the photos in general and their particular photo specifically. I really don’t think it will sway anyone’s vote that much and besides it may help others understand a little more about what makes a good photo vs a “so what shot”.
Second… Change the scoring so the “Subject” has the same value as the “Technical” Each of the areas that should be evaluated…
Subject: Is there an identifiable subject? Is it interesting and does it fit the category?
Composure: Is the subject placed in photograph so as to draw/hold your attention?
Lighting/ Exposure: Is the photo properly exposed? Is there detail in the shadow and in the highlight? Are the blacks black and whites white?
Color: Are the colors consistent with the theme and mood of the photo.
Focus: Is the subject of the photo sharp and “in focus”? Keep in mind that there are circumstances, primarily in portrait shots, where a subject may be “soft focused” intentionally.
Depth of Field: It is suggested that in “most” properly composed photos that there be either foreground or background objects (oriented to the main subject) that adds to the sense dimension in a photo. These objects are often “out of focus” to the main subject.
These 6 items could be rated on a 1 to 3 or 1 to 5 scale. I like the 1 to 3 personally because there isn’t much room for ambiguity. You either:
(1) Don’t think it meets the standard.
(2) You are neutral or feel it just minimally meets the standard.
(3) Think it meets and/or exceeds the standard.
Each item could be averaged separately and then those 6 items averaged together.
With such a system a person could at least get an idea about the basic quality of their work. It would help eliminate some of the subjective issues built in to the current system with such a heavy emphasis on the personal like or dislike for a particular shot… or photographer for that matter.
JLW
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Orville Wright didn’t have a pilot's license. |
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| Eugene |
| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:02 am Post subject: |
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King
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 401
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JLW:
i have copied this (as well as other suggestions) to my idea file, will arrange it and i think we need a sort of poll as there are a few quite different ideas how to change the voting system.
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| Chris L |
| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Devotee
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 27
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| JLW wrote: |
I personally think the voting is too narrowly defined. Perhaps there could be other categories added to the mix. For example: Instead of just a single category for “technique”. How about a category for composition, focus, lighting, Depth of field etc… That way a photographer would stand a chance of understanding what it is about a photo that needs improvement. And scoring for the “subject”; in my humble opinion this is a very subjective category as is evidenced by the fact that there are always entries that have little or no bearing on the contest subject in which they are entered. A scale with a 1 to 5 rating on subject, composition, focus, lighting, depth of field and overall appeal would be much more useful to me as a photographer looking to improve the quality of my work. You could post the contests results for 1st 2nd and 3rd and also post the other entrants averages of their score in each of the categories.
Just one man’s opinion.
Jim |
Make that two men's opinions. I like this idea. I'm here to improve my photography also and having a system like this would be ideal. As for prizes, I think that having a prize on the line will just increase the chances of people cheating.
Chris |
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| nehaseth28 |
| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:53 am Post subject: |
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Fan
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 1
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hi, can we restrict on editing plz until unless if the contest is dat way like in 'grain is good'. coz true photography is without editing. i only resize my images nothing else but i feel bad when i saw otr ppl winning coz they worked on there images in photoshop. by profession i am a special effects artist for movies, i can add wonders 2 my pics, but i am strongly against dat coz then ITS NOT PHOTOGRAPHY.
for eg. in contest red, most of people have made pic grayscale and kept red part intact. i think its wrong. the color should itself be dominant in the frame. |
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| heatherlynne |
| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: |
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Aficionado
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 72
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| I had a thought, Since people are split when it comes to editing pics for contests. Would it be possible to change the open Open Contests and Advanced Contests to Edited and Non Edited Contests? |
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| Himself |
| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: |
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Fan
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 6
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I don't really have the much of an opinion about the current voting system right now, but I think a 1-2-3 system with several different categories like JLW suggested would be pretty good. I also think that a favorite to least favorite system would be good. Maybe have the favorite-to-least favorite system on beginner contests and the 1-2-3 multi-category system on advanced. Or one on both. I know that a lot of work and time went into the current system and that a lot of work and time would go into another one, but a new system (like either of the two above) would be easier to use from a voter's point of view.
As for the mentions of edited versus unedited - I think that unless otherwise mentioned (like in "Red" where it says that selective coloring is okay) photos should be strictly unedited. Cropping, slight lightening/darkening and contrast edits should be the most allowed (once again, unless otherwise mentioned). |
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