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JLW |
 Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Fanatic
Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 163
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What was the all the BS in the previous post about feedback?
“We can't learn to better our photography without comments, suggestions, and honesty?”
“I always tell people not to take critiques personally but to use them as a learning tool.”
“I used to take it personally when someone left a negative comment. It took a while but I finally opened my eyes and looked at my work as if it were not mine. Then I noticed the same things others did.”
I hope I always continue to learn from others. The day I stop learning will be the day I hang up my camera.
Look folks… I’ve been a member of this site for over 2 years and have never had a single complaint from anyone about posting a “revised” version of a photo for the purpose of showing another way it may have been presented. And there have been dozens. I am not the only one who has participated in this activity. I have never asked for permission nor given permission for anyone else to revise my photos. NO ONE HAS EVER COMPLAINED!! Most of us look at such activities as a learning opportunity.
Since the early days back in 07 I have not voted anyone a low ball score for the express purpose of “annoying” them or trying to better my standing in a contest. Back then I was trying to figure out who were the most likely cheats and I did intentionally manipulate standings in the contests to see which ones would suddenly pop back into the top three. A few of those people are still around occasionally. Back in 07 I took all my photos down and started over. This allowed any legit scoring photos to attain their proper standing in the contests.
I again took my photos down about a month ago because like some of you I kept getting low ball scores for what were technically good photographs. And just for your information I haven’t voted in a single contest since. All of you need to find a different target for your hostility. Any low ball scores you have been getting or will get in future contests will not have been from me.
As for all the whining about copyright infringement; I see very few photos posted here with copyright notifications on them. Before you get all huffy about copyright violations… Go read the law… especially as it pertains to photos posted on public domain websites.
JLW
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Orville Wright didn’t have a pilot's license. |
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| TJRusso |
| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Aficionado
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 88
Location: South Florida
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JLW,
I do know the copyright law.
Copyright Notice: A work that is created on or after January 1, 1978, is automatically protected from the moment of its creation and is given a term of copyright protection enduring for the lifetime of the creator plus an additional 70 years after the creator's death.
To copy, borrow, reproduce or modify said work without express written permission is prohibited and constitutes a violation of State and Federal trademark, service mark and copyright laws, including, but not limited to United States Code, Title 15, Section 1125.
This covers posting images on the internet. Unless you clearly state that your work is "public domain" anyone who uses it opens themselves up to legal problems.
Do me a favor and leave me alone. If you are going to cause problems stay off my threads.
I can't stand your arrogance! |
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| Lynxy |
| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:49 am Post subject: |
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Aficionado
Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 84
Location: Poland
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People, please, stay calm!
As for me, I wouldn't edit somebody's photo without his/her permission, but I don't really know if it's practiced on this forum or not. (so I wrote that I allow editing of my photos in my signature)
And I need both of you for criticizing, 'cause you have absolutely polar views, what is very valuable!
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my photos are O.K. to edit |
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| randykeller |
| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Enthusiast
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 11
Location: baltimore, md
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Well... there is truth and there something else isn't there. One truth is, in well over 30 years I have never had a piece of work taken and edited without my permission. NEVER EVER! You can make all the claims you want to, but its outright wrong to do it. And it is definitely a violation of the copyright laws, and for what its worth, all my photos are copywritten. Whether or not I state it as such is my choice. I relinquish certain rights to this site, and those I accept fully. But I relinquish nothing to anyone else.
This is not good criticism, my man. Its not how it is done anywhere in the world. it is not accepted practice. It is considered a violation of an artist's rights and a violation of his personal property. It feels akin to burglary to me. No one has done it to me, but if it has been done to someone else. then it has the same effect. One doesn't tolerate something he knows to be horribly wrong - one tries to correct it. No? And no one should give you or anyone else the right to alter their photos and repost them. There is NOTHING anyone can learn from you the second you do that.
I don't care whether you vote me low or not. I will deal with votes quite well. My skin is way thick enough to handle the fact that someone doesn't like what I do. I'm way used to it.
BUt this other matter? I can't help myself. Its all about usurping someone's image that tweeks my cheeks and chaps my thighs. That little piece of information is more than enough to get me more than a little annoyed. And your defense of it is unconscionable and frankly... indefensible. If I were you, I'd back away from this whole attitude you have about such things. It doesn't matter what you used to do way back in '07 and it doesn't matter how much some people appreciate it. Doing so without gaining permission first is wrong REGARDLESS of how you feel about it. And if no one ever told you that since '07 - THEY ARE TELLING YOU THAT NOW!
This technique you brag about - its not good form and there is very little anyone can learn by allowing someone to remake their work in his/her image. Its disrespectful to the photographer to do that.
You will be happy to know that I am done on the subject. I hope I have given you food for thought, but I doubt you care one way or the other what I think. But I would hope you will remember that you have absolutely no rights in the matter of reproducing someone else's work - NONE. No defense of your position on this matter, or your insistent attempt to make those of us who disagree look uniformed and stupid, will alter your lack of rights in this matter. YOu will always have none.
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randy.keller@yahoo.com |
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| JLW |
| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Fanatic
Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 163
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Randy... You and TJ have nothing to worry about from me. I won't bother with your photos. I do have respect for your views on this matter. However, when you consider the nature of this site is geared toward an opportunity for learning about photography, I think you’re both just a little too sensitive about copyright infringement.
If you simply make a comment saying "lightening the foreground would improve the image", there may be hundreds of members here that have no idea exactly what that means or how to accomplish it in their photo. Just because you and I and maybe a few others have been at this for decades, and know many of the tools and techniques available for editing, doesn’t mean everyone does. That is why occasionally I prefer to show with their own work what the effect of my comment actually does to change the work. They are free to decide themselves if it is actually any improvement.
And just because this may offer a tool for learning I have excerpted a couple of lines from copyright law that may be of interest to everyone here.
The concept of fair use permits the utilization of copyrighted materials for certain purposes. For example, a newspaper can publish copyrighted works for purposes of reporting news and a teacher can make multiple copies of certain works for classroom use without risking infringement. In order to determine if a use is fair or is an infringement, one must determine how much of the copyrighted work is used and the impact this use will have on the potential market for the copyrighted work. If the use lessens the potential market for the work, there will be infringement.
Parody is a form of fair use. In parody, an artist, for some comic effect or for social commentary, may closely imitate the work of another artist, as long as the new work ridicules or comments on the style or expression of the original.
JLW
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Orville Wright didn’t have a pilot's license. |
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| randykeller |
| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Enthusiast
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 11
Location: baltimore, md
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This is the sound of me zippering my mouth shut. Hear it? Its so hard to do, but... I promised! sigh...
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randy.keller@yahoo.com |
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| Lisa Deaton |
| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Devotee
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 41
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Obviously this is a pretty sensitive issue, so I hope I don't set anybody off.
But......JLW and Lynxy each had their way with one of my photos and I thought they both did a great job. I'm actually flattered when anyone takes an interest in my photos for whatever reason. If someone wants to
try to improve on one of mine that's great. To me it just means they saw something there they liked to begin with. Plus, I don't photoshop, so it's fun to see what they can do. I still contend photography is like music. If you want to do your version of a song I created, I'm flattered. Have some fun folks..it's later than you think.
Lisa
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| TJRusso |
| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Aficionado
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 88
Location: South Florida
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How my original post had nothing to do with you. I have no idea why you chose to post a remark attacking me. Nowhere in my original post did I say anything about copyright, fair use, or anything else.
I was trying to get members to start leaving comments when they vote. I was trying to take some of what I've learned over the past 3 years on other sites and use it here to help others.
You decided to take over the thread with a personal attack at me by ranting about the fact I told you to remove my image that you edited without my permission.
YOU started the drama on this thread. Not me or anyone else. Below is all I have to say to you on this issue or any other issue.
Since I've worked in the romance writing industry since 1996. I've worked with several famous authors, many of the cover models, the owner of a national magazine, and have friends in the industry I know all about the "fair use" and "creative commons" law.
This website is a privately owned site and anyone who posts their work here does so with the expectation that their work will not be abused or misused. It's very simple...using someone else's work in any way without permission is WRONG! End of story!!
The main issue here is that you aren't getting what Randy and I are both telling you. What you did is an INSULT to photographers.
I will no longer be posting on the message board. I haven't decided if I'll be posting in the contests anymore.
Why should I only to have you give a low score without saying why? This site was one of my two favorite photography sites.
I have always looked forward to signing on, looking through the contests, and enjoying everyone else's photographs. That is...until you started agravating me.
TJRusso |
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| TJRusso |
| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Aficionado
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 88
Location: South Florida
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Randy,
Thank you so much for your support. I truly appreciate it.
The main thing that upsets me is this person hijacked my thread trying to get people to comment and turned it into a personal attack on me. I said nothing about copyrights or anything else until after he/she attacked me.
You and I both have said all we can in regard to using other people's images. If this person choses to ignore us that's his/her business.
It's a waste of our time for either of us to say anything else on this thread.
Thank you!
TJRusso |
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